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Tiva
Apr 16, 2010 19:36:05 GMT -6
Post by PEJA on Apr 16, 2010 19:36:05 GMT -6
Feel free to expand on your answers below.
Flaming will not be tolerated, but open and mature discussion can only make this thread better.
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Tiva
Apr 16, 2010 20:13:17 GMT -6
Post by jhema53 on Apr 16, 2010 20:13:17 GMT -6
Tony & Ziva should have lives outside of NCIS. It's more interesting to see them dating other people. Even though I couldn't stand Jeanne, it was fun seeing Tony having fun away from NCIS.
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Tiva
Apr 16, 2010 23:54:01 GMT -6
Post by buffyangel68 on Apr 16, 2010 23:54:01 GMT -6
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Tiva
Apr 17, 2010 3:45:56 GMT -6
Post by xanthe on Apr 17, 2010 3:45:56 GMT -6
I hate the Tiva scenes - they bore me rigid and I see absolutely ZERO chemistry between the two of them. I know some people love them together but I honestly can't see it. They're like a black hole, dragging all the life out of NCIS with their awful ambiguous scenes in various rest rooms. Their dialogue makes no sense, and they would make a terrible couple - there's clearly no trust, respect or liking there on her part, and he seems to have real issues with her background as an assassin and her use of violence. I resent that the show is spending so much time on their "relationship" such as it is. It seems they can never have even an exchange of dialogue these days that isn't full of heavy Tiva anvils and suggestive phrasing. It's one of the reasons I've fallen so much out of love with NCIS. I also resent the fact that in order to have Tiva scenes, we no longer seem to have ANY Tony/Abby scenes - there hasn't been one scene between the two of them alone so far in S7 and we're nearly at the end. In fact we see fewer scenes between all the other characters as a result of the over-emphasis on Tiva. I don't watch for Tiva so this has alienated me hugely as a fan.
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Tiva
Apr 17, 2010 5:13:19 GMT -6
Post by marik404 on Apr 17, 2010 5:13:19 GMT -6
I agree with xanthe that there is no chemistry in that pairing and like jhema53 I would prefer them having an outside-NCIS live. And though I'm a T/G slasher at heart I believe in the motto 'don't sh*t where you eat' - so unless Tony or Gibbs leave the team I don't like to see anything happen in this perspective. So if there has to a romantic pairing on this show it should be any other than Tiva or any constellation inside the team.
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Tiva
Apr 17, 2010 5:51:23 GMT -6
Post by starbuckssue on Apr 17, 2010 5:51:23 GMT -6
I find the 'Tiva moments' to be awkward between the two actors, like they're not comfortable playing their relationship that way and, as has been previously mentioned, I see no chemistry between the two and very little trust or affection. I'm no great fan of Ziva as I think she was accepted into the team too quickly and then accepted back in after the Somalia incident way to easily, especially after the way she treated Tony, lied to Gibbs about her mission to kill Ari and with forcing him to choose between her and Tony. A relationship between the two would just never work and, as Xanthe mentioned, it's spoiling the relationship between Tony and the other characters because, as far as I've seen throughout the seasons, he's much closer to any of the others than he is to Ziva. I could realistically see Tony and Gibbs together as they have both been burned and damaged by their past and they complement each other so well and bring out the best in each other simply because they know each other inside out. Although I do enjoy Tony/Tim I see Tony more as the older brother in the way he treats Tim, teaching, mentoring and toughening him up, and the same with Abby, with Ducky as the tolerant uncle. Ziva sticks out like a sore thumb in the 'family group' as not belonging.
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Tiva
Apr 17, 2010 8:51:57 GMT -6
Post by rmariett on Apr 17, 2010 8:51:57 GMT -6
The whole TIVA/Ziva push has done more harm to NCIS and its audience than any ratings competition ever could. Combine that with TPTB who have singlemindedly worked towards making what was once a fun fictional forensics drama with a quirky ensemble cast of characters into an unbelievable nighttime soap opera and add to that the vocal faction who feel they are entitled to having TIVA become canon - this had become anything but a great fandom to be attached to. Characters we have come to know and love have been warped and virtually destroyed to highlight Ziva - to make her appear to be the star to of the team. Gibbs's gut is no longer reliable. He is easily played and manipulated and apparently has forgotten that he once valued loyalty. Tony has devolved into the comedic relief showing less and less the skilled investigator that could come at a case sideways and find the key to unlock the solution - he is now the class clown, incapable of defending himself much less a team mate - all too often painful to watch. McGee once the overeager, book-smark probie has matured and now has a backbone too bad it it was gained with the sacrifice of his empathy, compassion and kindness. Now, all too often he goes for the jugular even with his teammate and partner and his ego knows no bounds with Vance whispering in the background about how the future of NCIS is staffed with agents just like the double degreed McGee. Abby the brilliant forensics scientist, quirky, eccentric, full of energy and good humor has become baby!Abby acting more like a teenager and toddler in turn instead of a competent professional. Ducky has perhaps changed the least but we see far less of him than ever before which makes me sad in so many ways. David's Ducky Mallard was never the star of the show or team but you could always rely upon his steadfast professionalism combined with his humor and compassion. It is sorely missed. Jimmy Palmer is shown even less than Ducky this season and that too is a loss for the show. And all of this happened because TPTB decided that Ziva/TIVA should become the feature arc of the series. Ziva of whom we've been told many lauded tales but have seen a multitude of instances that directly contradict any of the so-called attributes given to her: highly trained [laughable], professional [extremely laughable], capable [of betrayal and disloyalty and manipulation], etc. I'd list more but my gag reflex is acting up and I'd rather not throw up in my mouth. As for TIVA itself - there have been over the course of the series since Ziva introduction a few exceedingly brief sparks of chemistry between Ziva and Tony. Any spark doesn't last an entire scene even - which is very sad. I'm sure it doesn't help that both actors approach their scenes without prior discussion and from very different views - CdP has stated that she thinks they should get together because Tony/Michael is hot and Michael has stated repeatedly that a consummated canon romance is the death knell of a series and wants nothing to do with it and therefore doesn't approach the scenes with the idea that Tony and Ziva should end up together - he's also stated that Tony would never get involved with crazy chicks and Ziva certainly falls under that category. Frankly, Tony deserves much much much better.
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Tiva
Apr 17, 2010 10:05:18 GMT -6
Post by otherkate on Apr 17, 2010 10:05:18 GMT -6
The scenes between Ziva and Tony don't really bore me...I just don't see them together romantically. Anything that creates the vision of them 'being in love with each other' is quite unbelievable to me. I see TIBBS and McNozzo a whole lot easier than TIVA.
What really bugs me is the !IdiotTony and !EgotisticalMcGee we've gotten this last season. NCIS isn't the first show I watch on my Tivo anymore. The point of good writing is to have character not be one, and the writers have begun to make the much loved NCIS characters into cheap knockoffs of the originals.
The humor and angst was a lot more understated in previous seasons. Currently, the humor and angst are over the top and detrimental to the entire show.
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Tiva
Apr 17, 2010 19:52:27 GMT -6
Post by fyrelady on Apr 17, 2010 19:52:27 GMT -6
Although I love to read slash, Tony/Gibbs in particular, in this case it's a little on the 'Pairing We Would Love to See on TV That Is Likely Never to Happen' scenario. In light of that, I would prefer NOT to see Tiva on the show.
Everyone who has posted before me has given the same reasons I would have enumerated.
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Tiva
Apr 21, 2010 7:16:36 GMT -6
Post by nikirl on Apr 21, 2010 7:16:36 GMT -6
Although I read gen or slash avove het, I really see none of these characters together. However, there is more onscreen chemistry between almost any other actors on the show than those two. I really feel that in a four person team to pair up any two is a mistake as it shifts the dynamic to a 3 person dynamic and both characters involved miss out. I can already see that happening here as I feel that Gibbs and Tony are teamed up less and I really miss the way that they used to be so insinc with each other.
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Tiva
Jul 17, 2010 9:51:10 GMT -6
Post by pathenak on Jul 17, 2010 9:51:10 GMT -6
I started to get annoyed with NVIS when the whole TIVA started, and now, if I know there is something that would scream TIVA, I won't watch that episode. the whole TIVA thing has been pushed so far that makes me hate it just on principle. the writers and producers are basically saying: look, this is the pairing you should support!
but hey, this is just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not. who knows? who cares?
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Tiva
Jul 17, 2010 9:59:12 GMT -6
Post by pathenak on Jul 17, 2010 9:59:12 GMT -6
Sorry, meant NCIS. Typing error!
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